Will Israel take it to Iran?

By Rightlogic Posted in Comments (21) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

From the diaries . . .

As we have discussed Iran's growing nuclear capabilities, and in particular what our options and responses should be, it has been my position that, as usual, Israel is being underestimated in their capability, prowess, and willingness to act, and that they could very well deliver the first aerial blow to embedded Iranian nuclear targets, such as the enrichment facility at Natanz, at the point that Israel feels the threat to their country has reached critical mass. Several have disagreed with me on this point, stating that the previous Israeli bombing of Iraqi nuclear facilities doesn't equate to the current crisis, because of the additional distance to Iran and the fortifications of their nuclear sites. They stated the IDF had no such capability in either deep-penetration weaponry, nor in long range fighter or bomber capacity without our help in mid-flight refueling, which we might be loathe to give if we didn't agree with their preemptive attitude. (We can't let something trivial, like their right to survive, get in the way of regional stability or international diplomacy, can we?)

Yet today, as I predicted, it is reported that Israel does indeed have the capability to project its regional power to Iran, and with more ease than its previous action against Iraq since we now control all of Iraqi airspace and simply have to turn our heads for the IDF to accomplish what they will:

Israel has purchased 25 $84 million F-15I (I for Israel) Ra'am, a special version of the U.S. F-15E long-range interdiction bomber. It also is buying 102 of another long-range tactical jet, the $45 million F-16I Sufa. About 60 have been delivered.

 The Jewish state also is buying 500 U.S. BLU-109 "bunker buster" bombs that could penetrate the concrete protection around some of Iran's underground facilities, such as the uranium enrichment site at Natanz.

The final piece of the enterprise is a fleet of B-707 air-to-air refuelers that could nurse strike aircraft as they made the 900-mile-plus trip inside Iran, dropped their bombs and returned to Israel.

And as if they didn't already have enough reason to preemptively strike, what with a sworn enemy gaining long-range nuclear warhead capability while calling for the annihilation of Israel, now that same enemy, Iran, has started a ground war with Israel on the Lebanese border through proxy.

Well, not totally through proxy, as 500-1000 Iranian Guard troops are in southern Lebanon training, equipping, and gaining intelligence for Hezbollah. Israel is getting louder in their threat of attacking Iran, and when Israel does this, historically it is seldom limited to rhetoric:

Tel Aviv has ratcheted up the volume in attacking the hard-line Islamic regime as it fights the Iranian-backed Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. In the past, Israeli politicians have talked openly of attacking Iranian nuclear sites to prevent the U.S.-designated terror state from building atomic warheads.

What is surprising in all of this is the response in some quarters of the U.S. military, such as Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney, a former fighter pilot who has trained extensively with Israelis, who feels it shouldn't be forced on Israel to do this from across Iraq, when we have proximity and the greater capability:

"They have the capability to strike Iran," said retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas G. McInerney, a former fighter pilot who has trained with Israelis. "It would be limited, though.

Gen. McInerney said the United States must grant airspace rights. "They really can't do this without us," he said. "I wouldn't have them do it. We can do it much more aggressively and more decisively. We shouldn't force the Israelis to do it when we should do it."

With the recent military co-defense pact signed between Iran and Syria, and the direct involvement of both Iran and Syria in the current border war with Israel, it is not difficult to envision the escalation of the Lebanese border conflict into a regional MidEastern war, with the U.S. being drawn in by geo-proximity in Iraq and alliance with Israel.

Where our West European "allies" would fall in this conflict isn't hard to guess, considering the recent anti-Israeli falderal in the UN, from the "new" Human Rights Commission to the Security Council.

There has been some passionate debate here, and some small amount of hand-wringing by some, as to what we should do about "that Iranian nuclear thing". If Iran continues to up the ante through Hezbollah while doing their current rhetorical "cease-fire" dance, and Israel acts decisively in the interest of their own self-preservation, the extent of our own increasing military involvement "in that Iranian thing" may be decided for us.

  Right now, everything that happens vis-a-vis Iran goes back to Iraq.  Even if the relevence isn't clear on the surface, it's all connected to Iraq.  

  Lt. Gen. McInerney notes in the cited evidence that Israel requires overflight permission from the United States (through Iraqi airspace) to attack Iran.  Iran is going to see such permission as an act of war on our part.  Iran knows, however, that they have no chance of defeating us in an open war, so they'll attempt to exact their retribution in Iraq.  

  Iraqi Shia have been organized by Iranian inteligence services.  With the jockeying for position in the new government ongoing, Iranian influence has surely waned.  But expect them to do their very best to try and whip up a Shia uprising in Iraq in response to an Israeli air attack on their Shia brethren in Iran.  That would be bad on a number of levels, not the least of which is that Shia political parties hold the most power in the Iraqi government we just helped establish.  

[Insert cost-benefit analysis here.]

A Heads Up by BigRoss

The world oil supply is fixed and it is basically maxed (exclusive of new long term investments to tap existing oil in places like Iraq or Alaska, or new finds).  The Saudis currently have an extra 500,000 barrel a day capacity, maybe.   If Iran's oil came off the market the reduced supply in the face of record demands, would drive the price to an estimated $150 to $200  a barrel.  

Recommended by hoosierteacher

I'd recommend your diary, but heck man!  You're already on the front page!  Good job.

By the way, I voted that the US should hit Iran.

Well done.

Change the "it" to "somewhere".

with the US Military...big supporter!

I suggest changing the tag to "When it absolutely, positively needs to become nowhere overnight."

No advantage by steve1848

I see no advantage (to the United States) to "subcontract" any strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities to Isreal.

The fact is Israel can't get there (let alone back) without our at least grudging permission.  Just look at the map.  Since we will be accused (probably with good reason as mentioned) of supporting the strike, we might as well do it ourselves.  After all our stealth assets and a massive cruise missile volley (neither of which Israel can supply) would make the mission have a much greater chance of success without major losses on the side of the good guys.

I hope we don't try to take the "easy" way out and leave it to the Israelis.  No one in the (muslim) world will buy it anyway.

lol! by hunter

It would be fun to do to the bad guys what they did to us in Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, etc.: Work with trusted allies invisibly to enhance the ally's capability.

My context is fine. by Rightlogic

The Iranian Shia connection to recent partisan uprisings in Iraq hasn't been forgotten, nor has there been any lack of debate concerning those ramifications in our recent "nuclear Iran" discussions. Duly noted.

Some serious risks must be taken at critical points, when the problem at hand presents a greater potential danger than the risks associated with action.

War is fraught with such catch-22 decisions, none of them pleasant, some of them necessary.

we would get it, not how much it would cost. You're right, the geo-political disruption would send prices out the roof.

Note, though, that my premise was that the Iranian oil supply would not be off line for any extended period of time, since we're talking about strategic air strikes.

On the other hand, if we go into a ground engagement, it's a whole 'nother story.

Ahhh by Raven

I wish I had some stock in ANWR right now.  Alas, youth and a lack of rich parents...

Israel plus by RBMN

Israel just has to purchase plenty of American bunker-busters first, if they haven't already. Then Israel, plus about 1000 American cruise missiles could probably get the job done. With American cruise missiles, there's lots of cruise, but no "crusader."

Drop ship delivery? by Darin H

Israel buys the bunker busters from us and we delivery them to the address requested by the Israelis....

What can The Red, White and Blue do for you!

When it absolutely, positively has to get there overnight!

Just a question by Socrates

of good customer service.  

"Would you like Stealth with that?"

Doing the Dirty Work by GreyCloak

That's what most of the world would like to see ... let the Israelis do it, so that we can condemn them in the aftermath and not trouble ourselves with actually dropping any "gifts" ourselves.

I think the Israelis know that they have a window of opportunity to take out their nearby problems, before Iran gets its nukes and makes that more difficult.  But I'm not sure they're ready to take out Iran ... if only because it's what the rest of the world would like them to do.

No doubt the Israelis have the capability ... but the Irani facilities are buried pretty deep (they learned that from the Israeli strike on Iraq's nukes).

Politicians and diplomats will dither ... Israel just might like to see them actually do something. Iran is up to us, Europe, Russia, and China.

When that happens, all eyez on Iran.

I think the majority of our allies would like a peek into Syria.  Israel will give us that peak.  Let's not forget, they are looking for a couple soldiers.

If not dead, I bet they are in Syria. If that's the case, sooner or later , Iran will be the target.

.... because if Israel attacks Iran we will have be walking, pedeling, rollerskating, or whatever, to work and to school.

the Sauds will still be selling us oil. But if not, the orders will simply be increased from Mexico and Venezuela (who will in turn buy and resell more from Russia, which they are currently doing to complete their standing orders as it is).

Unless we or Israel strike the Iranian oil infrastructure, which I haven't seen anyone call for, I doubt the conflict will physically do much to affect the world oil supply, once Iran gets their power supplies up and running again. Now, politically that may be a different story entirely.

And any good delivery service by E Pluribus Unum

would make any return visits necessary to make sure the delivery is.... ah.... complete, and the customer is fully satisfied with the product.

my oil stocks by kyle8

are looking sweet right now.


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